♦ REFRESH to rotate MAAMAW'S CLICKY NOTES thru this space..... Timely Tips, Best of the Boards & More ♦
PROTECT YOURSELF FROM SCAMS!  Research all business opportunities thoroughly, and never blow off other people's bad experiences.  Ask around (and listen!).  The Scams101 Message Board is a good place to start.  What's that?  You've found a Biz Op and you're wondering if it's endorsed by FIB?...  Not unless it's listed in MaaMaw's Magnificent Toolbox.






[ View Thread ] [ Post Response ] [ Return to Index ] [ Read Prev Msg ] [ Read Next Msg ]

FIB - Scams 101

Re: Jim Staw's affiliate marketing handbook

Posted By: Bob E.
Date: Tuesday, November 6, 2007, at 9:18 p.m.(pst)

In Response To: Re: Jim Staw's affiliate marketing handbook (Jim Wilson)

>> Hey Sue,

>> There might be a problem with your idea. The book/ebook is probably
>> copywritten

Everything that is "published" is copyrighted, according to current US copyright laws. The second you publish it to the web or write it on paper, or publish it in an ebook, it's copyrighted. You don't have to actually register the work with the US Copyright Office anymore if you don't want to, if I'm not mistaken. Just so you know.

>> and thus it, to my knowledge and understanding, is not
>> supposed to be shared without the permission of the owner.

If I go to a bookstore and buy a book and read it, then give it to my friend to borrow and read so that he doesn't have to go and spend money on it (since I already have it), that's not against the law to the best of my knowledge. We can even go in halves on it and it would not be against the law. But even if it is against the law (and come to think of it now, it actually might be), there is no way on earth they will find out and there is no way on earth they can really enforce such a law so the law is, for all intents and purposes, "dead in the water" from the day it was enacted. Only on rare occasions can they actually enforce such laws and they only do it to tech others a lesson. However, we "others" don't learn and still go about doing things like this all day long because we can't be bogged down with petty things like this.

>> Granted everyone who put in their fair share would be entitled to getting
>> something for their investment but I would still contact J.S. and ask him
>> if your idea is OK with him.

Sure, you could always ask and notify authors but really "what they won't know won't hurt them" and furthermore there really isn't anything they can do about it if they don't have any proof (and 99.9% of the time they don't have proof). If the author says that it's not OK, then who really cares because you can still go ahead and do whatever you want and no one will ever be the wiser, including the author.

It doesn't really come down to a matter of law here since the law can't really be enforced realistically. It comes down to the morals of the consumer and I personally believe that 90% of the population would still sleep at night after having shared an ebook or book or music files of CD or did a co-op purchase on such things, even though the author doesn't think it's right and disapproves.

>> Some sellers that I personally know would be against your idea because
>> they would view it as if they would be losing potential sales by allowing
>> people to simply invest less per person and still get the same full access
>> and benefit.

That's exactly right. So ebook authors need to start using programs and systems out there that only allow an ebook to be viewed on one computer. These systems exist (although not 100% fool-proof) but many ebook authors don't want to use them because they claim that by using these systems they will get too many tech support calls. They want to "have their cake and eat it too" but that's not my problem nor is it the problem of any consumer. They'll also use the argument that having to use such systems would be too costly and would put them out of business or create such a cost barrier that it would hinder many from even being able to go into business. Well, such is life and business. There are barriers to entry in most businesses and this argument is pretty much moot.

>> In other words the product is worth $99 for one person. If someone
>> only pays $25 are they still entitled to $99 worth?

Not necessarily "entitled" but they will get it anyway because there is nothing stopping them except morals and maybe a law that can't be enforced.

>> Compare it to going to a deli. You and 3 friends all want a cake but
>> cannot afford but one. Each cake cost $10. You each invest $2.50 in order
>> to get one cake but then, when you split things up, everyone is still
>> hungry. Because they did not get an entire cake each but only a piece of
>> one. So you go up to the deli manager and tell them that you would ALL
>> like a whole cake so you can all be completely satisfied.
>> Is he going to give you 3 more cakes in order to satisfy your needs?

You can't compare this to a physically consumable product. It's just like comparing an Elephant to a daydream. It just can't be done. My analogy of the paper book on the other hand does fit almost 100% because a book, like an e-book, is an intellectually consumed product, but not physically consumed and depleted. It's just that one has actual physical properties (the book) and the other one doesn't (the ebook).

Let me ask you something. Let's say I download an album off the net (legally) and pay for it. And I legally make it into an audio CD (because that is allowed in the license that came with the files)) so I can listen to it in my car's CD player. Does that mean when you hop into my car that I can't play that album because you can intellectually consume it without having paid for it? Or let's say I buy an ebook off the net from some marketer and then you come over to my house and I read it aloud so that both of us can intellectually consume it's contents. Would I still be committing a crime or be doing something immoral since you didn't pay a dime for it? What about if I had you pay me for a fraction of the cost of the book for "wear and tear"?

With either of these scenarios (if it is illegal or immoral), will I ever get caught for doing such a thing or will it eat away at my soul knowing I did such a small immoral act (I mean it's not like I'm stealing candy form a baby or food from a malnourished poor child). No, I didn't even think about it because I have a life to live and I can't be bothered with petty things like this that border on insanity if you think about it.

Should Susan have even bothered to come here and post such a post? No, she shouldn't have. She should have thought about it first, used her common sense, and realized that this is a controversial subject and possibly illegal for her to do so. Not to mention that it could get the site owner into trouble. But she didn't and I'm quite surprised the post wasn't deleted yet, to be honest. But she probably can't find people offline to go in on the purchase with her so she's probably desperate in that respect. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I remember reading another post here months ago about the same thing. I think she may have come around and re-posted her idea. What she needs to realize is that she needs to do these things more under the radar if she is going to do them at all. Jim Straw comes around here from time to time and if he could prove that she went ahead and did this co-op purchase, he could legally fight her on it, if he wanted to.

Now that brings up another sub-topic again. That is, the reason why many of these IMers who sell business/biz op/marketing ebooks don't bother to protect their ebooks. There is another reason other than what I mentioned above.

It's because they simply don't really care that much at all if the ebook is shared. Why? Because they don't make their bread and butter on the sale of the ebook. The ebook is a front-end product. They make money on the back-end product (ie: membership site sign-ups, affiliate links to other product, links to other (more expensive) products they sell, seminars, list building, etc.) So the more people that read it, the more they benefit from it. Some of them give out huge commissions to their affiliates for referring a customer, some even a whole 100%. Again, this is because the money is in the back-end. In fact, many times, the only reason a price is put on the ebook is so that they can attract affiliates to refer sales. If the book was free, no affiliate would ever promote it since he isn't making a commission from doing so (of course, there are other reasons why they put a price on the ebook rather than give it away for free - for instance people who get the ebook for free might not be the best type of person to sell back-end products to, but this is largely off-topic for now).

Is this the case with Jim and his ebooks? Nooooooooooo, I'm not saying it is or it isn't. He may or may not care if people share the ebooks he charges money for. I have no idea. But by and large, you will find that many IMers, especially the more popular ones, couldn't give much of a rat's patooty about this issue (and that's evident on IM and Ebook Marketing forums around the net). They have bigger fish to fry. If they want to protect their stuff, they wouldn't publish it in a PDF file to begin with because a PDF is just about the most "insecure" ebook format out there (and believe me, they know that). This may neither be here nor there to some of you but it's somewhat related to the topic and it's kind of interesting, I think. It's almost like an ebook marketing lesson in and of itself ;).

Bob E.

Messages In This Thread

[ View Thread ] [ Post Response ] [ Return to Index ] [ Read Prev Msg ] [ Read Next Msg ]

FIB - Scams 101 is maintained by Lesley Fountain with WebBBS 5.12.







NOTICE TO SCUMBEEZLES
(you know who you are... you scream "Foul!" when the truth comes out)
        PLEASE READ THIS LEGAL NOTICE CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU FILE A LAWSUIT OR EVEN WASTE TIME THINKING ABOUT IT.  It has been done before, but never successfully.  In fact, the last dodobird who tried it ended up being ordered to pay more than $77,000 in attorney fees ($65,000+ to my attorneys and $12,000+ to my co-defendant's legal advisor).
        If your attorney is worth his salt, he's going to tell you that the expense of filing a lawsuit you can't win is a whole lot worse than any "damages" resulting from messages posted on this insignificant little chunk of cyberspace.
        NEWS FLASH:  I didn't just climb down off that ol' turnip truck yesterday.  I'm well aware that expressing a negative opinion, relating one's personal experience, and restating provable facts are all legal in this country and do not constitute libel, slander, or defamation -- so you don't want to play games with me, and you sure don't want to start something you aren't prepared to finish.  I don't take threats lightly, and I don't accept bribes (or did you call it a "mutually-beneficial arrangement"?).  I'll turn you in faster than you can yell, "ARREST ME, I'M SCUM!!" 
        Do yourself a favor and turn your legal team loose in greener pastures.
        Although we may, from time to time, monitor or review discussions, postings and the like on the Friends In Business (Scams 101) Message Board, we are under no obligation to do so.  We are not responsible or liable for any claim arising from the content of any such discussions or postings or for any error, defamation, libel, slander, omission, falsehood, obscenity, pornography, profanity, danger, or inaccuracy contained in any information contained within such locations on the Site.
        You are prohibited from posting or transmitting any unlawful, threatening, libelous, defamatory, obscene, scandalous, inflammatory, pornographic, or profane materials or any material that could constitute or encourage conduct that would be considered a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability, or otherwise violate any law.  You are likewise prohibited from posting any false claims against any company or individual.  We will fully cooperate with any law enforcement authorities or court order requesting or directing us to disclose the identity of anyone posting any such information or materials.
        By posting messages and/or content on the Friends In Business (Scams 101) Message Board, you give permission for Lesley Fountain/Friends In Business/Shoestring Success Publications to display, distribute and use the posting and content for publication, advertising, promotion, excerption or example. You grant Lesley Fountain/Friends In Business/Shoestring Success Publications complete, perpetual, but non-exclusive rights to use, archive, reproduce, adapt, modify, distribute, sub-license, repurpose, rework, compile, or offer for sale or resale the messages, postings or content appearing on this site in whole or in part, throughout the world and universe, on a royalty-free basis without remuneration.  If you cannot accept or agree with the terms of service for this website and discussion board, you are advised not to post on this board.
        In closing, I would like to remind you once again that it is still legal, in this great country of ours, to express a PERSONAL OPINION, as long as it is presented as opinion and not as fact.
        And finally, all you scammers out there will do well to remember that TRUTH IS AN ABSOLUTE DEFENSE against charges of libel, defamation, and slander... so if you're operating just a hop, skip, and jump ahead of the law, you might want to think twice before doing anything stupid... (AND SHAME ON YOU!!).