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FIB - Scams 101
CRAIG - from SUE COPENING - are you kidding?------WebKitFormBoundary866KAHojuEupq+GD
Posted By: Sue Copening------WebKitFormBoundary866KAHojuEupq+GD In Response To: SUE COPENING - Please help Sandy get her refund from UFirst (Craig Hansen)
Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, at 10:23 a.m.(pst)
Craig...
Wow... after you call me every name in the book, (liar, scammer, etc), you actually want my help? Are you kidding? If you truly believe those things, I am surprised that you would bother asking. After all... why would you think a "liar" and a "scammer" would be interested in wasting time helping anyone?
That said... HAPPY to help if I can.
But first let me address your unkind and disparaging comments to me. As far as Calvin's "challenge" - you know that posting numbers on the internet is against company policy, so I am unable to engage Calvin in that way. That said, though, I would be HAPPY to run some scenarios Calvin gives me through our DEMO software, show the affect on the payoff date, then let Calvin run the numbers himself to see what he gets and how fast he gets the answer. THAT would be a true test of our program versus the DIY method.
Remember... we have never claimed that someone COULDN'T do it themselves, only that they are unlikely to (if they could have done it themselves, why haven't they already?) and that, if they did do it, and did it successfully, it would take them WAY more time to make the calculations (it took one of my clients 40 hours with spreadsheets to come up with a similar (3 months off) result to what our software did in 10 minutes of input and less than 60 seconds of "thinking.")
We could do a "DEMO versus DIY" challenge using "GoToWebinar" and you could sit in (call me to set that up - it will be fun and I would be curious myself to try it with someone that is a "spreadsheet wiz").
As for Sandy... I was not "ignoring" you. I had not seen your request, or Sandy's complaint, until today (I hardly get on this site anymore), but even seeing Sandy's comments now, I don't know how to get ahold of her. You say you have sent me emails, but I didn't see them (though if they just came from the "friends" mail system - I probably deleted without reading, as I don't have time to investigate every "thread update.") If you want to get ahold of me though, I'm easy to find, just Goggle me. You'll even find my PHONE number along with my email. I know you know my Twitter account and it has a link to my web site.
If Sandy wants me to intervene for her, I will be happy to put her in touch with the right folks at the home office and send them an email on her behalf. Please have her give me a CALL OR EMAIL me (make sure the email is correct though - I'd give it here but then Admin would probably accuse me of "soliciting" and delete it).
However, let me point out that the company's refund policy is a PERFORMANCE guarantee and does hinge on a few things, which it states in writing... The client must have given us accurate numbers for the analysis, their financial circumstances must not have changed significantly, and they must have used the program as directed. Then the company guarantees the program will produce results as good, or better, than promised in the analysis (most of our clients get better results). This guarantee is in writing and all clients get it and sign it when they buy the program.
In my personal experience the people that have requested refunds have been, for the most part, people who bought the program, then never actually used it. In the 3 years I've been with the company, and out of my entire team, I've had only 4 clients who requested refunds. 3 of them had never activated and used their account. 2 had never even set UP their accounts (one for almost a year). One client had been a "no show" for 3 coaching sessions. The fourth client had decided to buy another home after they bought the program and, when it extended their pay-off time (they were confused that an extra $200,000 in debt would do that), they decided it "didn't work." One client insisted they had tried to use the program, not realizing the company can pull the log-in history and see if that is true (it wasn't), as well as the client support log to see if the client ever even requested help or coaching (they hadn't).
In reality, all of those refund requests were probably just the typical "buyers remorse" that sometimes happens with folks that buy things and never use them (like they do with gym equipment). This is the reason our company has implemented a more aggressive client support department (we now call clients within a week of their purchasing to walk them through set up and such, and we follow up again 2-3 times after that to insure they are engaged, on track and comfortable with the system).
In my experience, when people actually USE the program, they don't want refunds; so our first step is to always get the client engaged with the program ASAP, even if it means "holding their hand" for a period of time. I know of two instances of people who initially requested refunds but who were coached through using the program for a couple of months and now are happy clients and on track for the savings that were projected for them. We obviously want HAPPY clients USING the program because REFERRALS are where our new clients come from.
We find that once people really understand the program, they don't say things like Sandy said. Her statement about emptying her bank account and "bouncing" payments" indicates to me that she probably didn't use the program, and perhaps may have never even had a coaching session. The reason I say that is because the program would actually PREVENT that situation from happening. The only instance that might be true is if she lost her source of income. If that was the case, she would run out of money whether she was using the program or not and I'm sure she would understand that.
The program has a "minimum" balance level that a client set's on their accounts so that they don't draw down an account lower than they are comfortable with. Also, if a client is going "over budget" the program shows them in BIG RED NUMBERS that they are going to run out of money... and when. That way they have time to plan. This is a fail safe that is built in for situations like someone having their income drop, or expenses go up. In fact, when we sell the program, the Analysis will not "accept" a client that doesn't have enough money to make the program work successfully (in fact the Analysis will not even print a report). We literally cannot sell the program to people whom it would not work for.
The "red flag" also kicks in when someone is checking the "true cost" feature. For instance, If I am contemplating buying something, I can plug the cost in and it will tell me what the "true cost" is, based on my debt load (even paying cash costs you interest if you have debt), AND, if it is causing me to be "out of budget," it will "red flag" it and tell me that making that purchase will cause me to run out of money on XX/XX-date.
These features are why what Sandy was saying doesn't quite make sense. It's possible she misunderstood something, or perhaps I am misunderstanding what she said... but we can clear that up when we speak.
As for complaints in general. If you notice the complaints in the Better Business Bureau (only 27 out aprox 50,000 sales in about 5 years - .05%), you DO see that all the complaints were resolved, except one that was closed administratively (meaning that the person who complained never responded back to the BBB). So I think that anyone can see that is a very low number of "dissatisfied" customers. Note that is not 5%, it is .05%.
Anyway... please have Sandy get in contact with me and I'll be happy to see what I can do. As you say, I'm not an employee of the company, only an independent agent and branch manager, but if she has a legitimate "beef" it wouldn't hurt to get her to a department head who can review her case again and I can certainly help her do that. As you say, it is not good (or fair to UFirst) to have a dissatisfied customer saying things on the internet without the company being able to respond.
I'd also love to ask her, if she hasn't been using the program at all, how successful she has been paying down her debts all on her own during this time, and compare that to what she could have accomplished with the program. I did that with a client who had said "no" to the program 9 months earlier because he said he could "do it himself" and we realized he had probably let over $10,000 in savings slip through his fingers during that time. After he got on the program, 6 months later he was doing great and commented that he really had not realized how much money he frittered away on impulse purchases, and their impact, before the system showed that to him.
Once people are using the program, they start to understand that one of the biggest benefits it provides is as an educational and motivational tool to help change their bad habits into good ones. Once people get sensitized as to the impact their spending decisions and habits are having, they are motivated to make wiser choices. While they don't HAVE to change what they have been doing to get the results that were projected in their Analysis, when they do change in a positive way, they get even better results. This is part of why our typical client gets from 15% to 25% better results than were initially projected.
Have Sandy call me.
... Sue ;~)
PS: And please Craig.... try to treat people with respect and less (or no) name calling. It comes in handy if you later want them to do something for you. At the least you'll score some points with the big man upstairs, increase the balance in your "karma bank," and make yourself look like a mature, reasonable and compassionate person.
>> Sue, here's your shining moment to help an unsatisfied UFirst customer
>> get her money back. Please respond to Sandy's complaint and take up her
>> cause with UFirst. I know you're not even an employee of UFirst (you're an
>> "independent contractor") but you are very visible online,
>> except when it comes to helping people get the refunds you say they should
>> be entitled to.>> Sue, I've emailed you and called you out on this board twice now.
>> You've refused to take Calvin's challenge to prove the effectiveness of
>> the MMA, for what muct be over a year now. Now, you appear to be refusing
>> to help a disgruntled customer get her money back.>> If you can do this, I'll actually write some nice things about you,
>> because you will have deserved some benefit of the doubt. As of right now,
>> you're just a common MLM scammer.------WebKitFormBoundary866KAHojuEupq+GD
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