What follows is a message posted by Glen Pipkins at the Friends in Business Bulletin Board on August 8, 1998.  Lest anyone accuse me of tinkering with it, I decided to post the message in its entirety (screwy spelling and all).  As you can see, it was in response to questions from a lady named Mary regarding marketing in general and Corey Rudl's course in particular. 

A new message, "Re: Just Wondering....," was posted on the <http://friendsinbusiness.com/board/index.cgi> by Glen Pipkins on Saturday, 8 August 1998, at 10:11 p.m.  It is a response to "Just Wondering....," posted by Mary on Saturday, 8 August 1998, at 12:37 p.m.

The message reads as follows:

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[Glen]:  Okay.. this posting has struck a nerve with me.. enough to come out of lurking to respond to it..

[Mary]:  I know that I'll probably "take a lot of flack" from other FIB members for admitting this...but sometimes I feel so discouraged and angry (not to mention BROKE!)

[Glen]:  I think pretty much everybody here has felt like that before Mary.  I would have to drop my rock, if I were standing here waiting to stone you for that comment!

[Mary]:  Besides, where do you draw the line between being COMPLETELY honest in an ad, and creeping over the edge with such advertising wording like "learn the SECRETS of" or "act quick before prices go up", etc.  After all, aren't these all little "gimmicks" designed to get people to spend their money quickly and/or impulsively?

[Glen]:  Of course the idea behind them is to get people to spend their money... that's the entire point of sales in general, however, I think the question is how "honest" are they, and that would have to be taken on an individual basis.

For example:  I have the words "limited time offer" and "act now" and probably "hurry" and some others on my website, regarding the price of a sale package.  This package has been the same price since I started my business in March of this year (five months ago)  BUT... I plan to change this price within the next week or so, as I have already hit the mark that I was shooting to accomplish with the sale to begin with.  Now, when I put this sale on the site, I had no idea how long it would take me to get to this point, and I didn't want to end the sale before I did, because I wanted to get a particular sized customer base as fast as I could.  (existing customer's prices will not go up when the sale ends, by the way)

[Glen]:  You tell me.. was I dishonest in saying that the sale was for a limited time only, and hurry, etc..?  In the next couple of days, I intend to post an ending date of the sale on the site.  (Sale ends 8-15-98 most likely)  I will do this for two reasons.. one, so that nobody gets mad at me if they see it one day, and come back the next day to order, and it costs more.. and two, because I want to inject a sense of urgency to those who can't decide if they want to order or not.

Is that a gimmick?  SURE!  Is it dishonest?  I don't see how?

Here's the kicker.. if it IS effective in boosting sales, will I use it again?  SURE!  I will offer some type of special service with a package just to be able to say "offer ends (some date here)" if that will increase sales!

Is THAT dishonest?

[Mary]:  Which brings me to the Corey Rudl offer.  I'm sure it's a good course, but I have to wonder whether he falls under the category of people who are making money off of "selling his program" only.

[Glen]:  I have ordered, and nearly finished Corey's course.  I can tell you from experience that Corey did NOT make his money selling his courses.  Well, I'm SURE he's making a pretty penny selling them now, BUT.. you just don't GET the kind of knowledge Corey obviously has, without some hands on experience.

[Mary]:  Did he ever market via his own web site, and make money on, any other PRODUCTS other than this "how to" program"?

[Glen]:  Yes, he's made a KILLING selling a book on the internet.  I forget the title now.. something about Car SECRETS revealed (there's one of those gimmick words again, huh?) or something like that.  I don't remember, because I'm not the least bit interested in cars, or buying a new one, etc... but the point is, Corey sold (and continues to sell) a TON of those, at an incredible profit margin. (it costs him next to nothing to produce)

He also makes money on newsletters, and re-selling a lot of other products such as mailloop (a powerful email program that costs 375.00 or so)

[Mary]:  is he becoming rich simply by selling his "how to" course.

[Glen]:  No, he's becoming richER simply by selling his "how to" course, AND (it was obvious to me) suggesting some helpful products to use in your endevors, that you can get from his website.  (He resells a lot of programs that help with internet marketing).  At first glance, you may think this is gimmick oriented, etc.. but I can tell you that Corey has used every one of these products for quite a while, he really believes in them, and they are part of why he is successful. (that's also obvious)

This didn't bother me at all, because it's part of what Corey teaches.. how to make these partnerships, and make money without any additional effort.  For Example.. He uses mailloop to accomplish what he needs to do.. this is something he would do regardless of any relationship with them.. BUT, he writes them and arranges a deal, that they give his customers a discount (yes, it's cheaper through Corey, than from mailloop themselves) and give Corey a cut as well, then he'll promote it in his course.  Then he spends an extra page or two on the functions of the program, and how it has benifited him, and it gives him content for his book, plus another product to sell and he doesn't have to ship it, be support for it, or anything.

It's just smart.  I can't blame the guy for that at all.  I'm much more inclined to learn from it

[Mary]:  If he was making so much money selling his other products, why did he feel the need to offer a "how to" course?  Why not just expand your "product" business?

The "how to" course IS an expansion of Corey's "product".  The book that Corey sold before, to make all the money in the first place, was nothing short of pure information.  Nothing has changed.  He is still selling pure information, based on his experiences with marketing and being so successful with what he did to sell that first book.

[Mary]:  It's like someone said....be careful about buying from people who are just making money from "telling YOU how to make money"!!  Maybe someone could explain how his offer is any different from people like Carleton Sheets, Brad Richdale, or any of the other "how to" gurus?

[Glen]:  Never bought from those people.. but I can tell you that I didn't see anything "SECRET" in any of Don Lapree's booklet thingies.  In fact, I think the only reason I didn't actually go kill him in his own kitchen, is that I felt that it was worth 30.00 for a listing of 300 newspapers and their phone numbers.

[Mary]:  I would be interested in hearing from anyone on the FIB site who has ALREADY ACTUALLY ACHIEVED SUCCESS with their web site as a result of using Corey's course.  The red flag for me is that everyone is "IN THE PROCESS OF" ordering and trying it.  I'm getting frustrated with all of this, and would love to hear from somebody who has ACTUALLY MADE SOME MONEY!! (and by the way...it wouldn't hurt to give us a "ballpark" of how MUCH money you've made!)

[Glen]:  What do you consider "success"?.. up until a few months ago, I was a full time city police officer.  I started my internet business last march, and now I am completely self employed, and living on nothing other than the income of that website.  Er.. for the "ballpark" figure you wanted.. umm.. I'm making a little more than I did after working as a policeman for six years, and receiving seven raises.  Granted, that's still not too much, but I work at home, when I want to, and my business is still just a baby (barely five months old)

DON'T get the impression that I didn't start learning what made the internet tick until last march, because I have been at this (eight hours a day or more) for well over a year, and have spent MANY sleepless nights learning what I have so far.

[Mary]:  We're all in the same boat....trying, trying, trying.  Isn't there anyone on this board who has ACTUALLY BEEN SUCCESSFUL?

[Glen]:  I don't consider myself "successful" yet.. I'm not sure that "success" isn't more of a path, than a destination, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and I'm living proof that you CAN make a living on the internet.

Now... did I use Corey's course to get where I am so far?

Yes and No.. more no than yes.

The things I did, the mistakes I made, the lessons I learned to get here, were all trial and error.  I took a lot of lumps getting here (and I'm sure I'm not done taking lumps by any means)  In short... I have learned what I know the HARD way.  The majority of what I learned, IS in Corey's course.

So No.. I got here without Corey's course, but Yes, I used a lot of the same methods to get here that he teaches.

I only got the course a short time ago, and it makes me sick sometimes to think of how much time I wasted learning those things that I could have simply read in his course, and some of the costly mistakes I could have avoided if I had gotten the course first.. BUT.. it's comforting to know that I have LEARNED those hard knocks to the point where I won't repeat them.

I have also learned quite a lot of new things that I didn't know, that I am either trying out now, or working on.  I have no doubt that they will work, and ultimately pay for the price of the course many times over.  NO KIDDING!

In short... I really don't KNOW if Corey has actually sold more than about three of his books, because I'm relying on Corey's course, for the informaion that I'm telling you about it, HOWEVER, I CAN tell you this.. I BELIEVE Corey has made a FORTUNE selling those books, because he definately knows HOW to accomplish that, and that information IS in his course, and those ideas and methods DO work, and if you are serious about doing business on the internet, you really should check out his course because no matter what you are doing, it will increase your sales if you put it to use, period.

There are a couple of things I've learned that I didn't see in Corey's course (and maybe I overlooked them) but I will try to convey the ideas of what I did to you without taking all day:

I created a website who's only purpose was to draw lots of traffic.  It is an entertainment site, and has a mailing list (that's important.. read Corey's course!)  Experience eventually taught me, that I had to make it as automated as possible (that's also in Corey's course) so that I could spend time doing other things.  I also used all sorts of things like awards I would give out to other sites, to increase traffic to mine, and was constantly striving to OFFER SOMETHING THERE THAT NOBODY ELSE ON THE INTERNET WAS OFFERING (needless to say, I think that's VERY important, for MANY reasons)

For me, on that site, it was electronic greeting cards.  (I can hear you thinking that EVERYBODY has those!)  I know.. but not ordinary greeting cards.. when everyone else was making the scene with "send a virtual hug or kiss" I was CAUSING A SCENE with "send someone you love a scorching case of virtual chickenpox, a horrible virtual sinus infection, or a painful, near permanant virtual wedgie" and of course there were a lot more, but the point is, NOBODY else was doing that (at the time) and people from all over the web linked to my site, because "hey.. look what this crazy idiot is doing!"

The point being... don't be afraid to go out on a limb, and do something against the grain!  Especially on a site that you create for no other reason than to draw traffic and create a mailing list to advertise in!

This site has been running on it's own for quite a while.. (I was busy starting the business I'm living on) and is just now starting to drop off in traffic.  I will be promoting it again in various ways, and updating it more soon, because it's invaluable to me!  I get about 2000 visitors per day there now, and run a couple of associate programs from other companies on it as well (like one and only singles connection) and in, and of itself,that site makes between 50 and 100 dollars per month.  Not much at all really, and I'm sure once I get back to having the time to really devote to it, I can use some of Corey's ideas to multiply that 10 fold or better in no time... but the whole idea of that site was never to make money.. it was only to draw traffic.

Now, instead of paying somebody to advertise my business there, that site PAYS ME to advertise my business there!  Plus, I run link exchange banners there, so I get better than 2000 exposures per day of my banner on sites all over the internet for free.. guess which banner gets shown over the net?  Right.. the business, not the entertainment site.  (this exposure would cost nearly 50.00 per day to BUY from link exchange, if I remember correctly)

This entertainment site is also used to trade banner "click-throughs" with other sites that are TARGETED sites for advertising my business.  This is fair to them, because we trade click throughs, not "impressions" so they are getting a visitor for every visitor I get to the business.  In other words.. I get better response out of my banners from a site who is giving away free cgi scripts (since I sell web hosting) than I would running that same banner on my joke site, so it's a good deal to me.. they are getting the same amount of click throughs so it's a good deal to them as well (it doesn't take long to get the click throughs for them at my joke site)

incidentally, I would love hearing from any of you who would be interested in trading some click throughs (just email me) or other means of mutual promotions.  I'm always open for ideas!

Anyway.. using a seperate site just for that, the use of awards, the unusual use of the banner exchange program, and the stress on unique attractions are some things that I don't remember seeing in Corey's course that I feel were (and are) fundamental in getting me where I am so far. (of course, I still haven't finished the course, so it may still be in there)  The only thing I don't like about his course, is the entire idea of bulk emailing.  (This is only a small part of the course, and in all fairness to Corey, really SHOULD be included to be a "complete" course on internet marketing.. I just don't like spam.)

Bottom line about Corey's course.. I am not returning it, I have written notes all in it, I will most assuredly read it again from cover to cover (and I hardly ever take time to read anything) and I have no doubt that it will pay for itself many times over.

[Mary]:  Sorry for sounding like a frustrated, old woman!  I'm looking forward to some feedback....

[Glen]:  Hope you were serious.. because I didn't intend to write a War and Peace sized novel on the subject, but internet marketing has become my life!  I also felt a little compelled to stick up for Corey a bit after having seen his course first hand.  He may be a salesman (if he's guilty of anything, that's it) but he's also put together a lot of information that has come from a LOT of hours on the internet, and quite frankly, while it looks like a high price for two big binders, a cassette tape, a handfull of floppy disks, and a couple of phone calls to Corey, the information in it is priceless!

When you think about it.. the only other way to get this information is to do it yourself, like Corey did.. and that takes YEARS, I promise!  I've been doing this for nearly two years, am making a living on nothing other than the internet, and I STILL think his course was a bargain for me!

You CAN make a lot of money on the internet (my income is increasing drastically every single month, and I don't see an end to it) BUT.. you are NOT going to do it in a week.. you are NOT going to be able to buy ANYBODY'S course, and do it in a month.  You CAN do it on a shoe-string budget, you CAN compete with the big boys, on a level playing field, and you CAN be your own boss, work at home (or out of a hotel room in Florida, as I do quite frequently) and all of the other things that sound so inviting about owning your own successful internet business, HOWEVER, YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR IT (at least at first anyway) AND IT DOESN'T HAPPEN OVER-NIGHT !

When I said I started my business five months ago, it didn't include the year's worth of work I did on the joke site, to build the traffic to the business site so quickly.. otherwise, I would either have to have spent a lot more on advertising the new business to get where I am now, or it would have taken me a lot longer, and I probably would have gotten discouraged, and given up on it after making 50 to 100 bucks per month doing it.

Sorry this was so long, but it wasn't long ago at all that I was begining to think this was a hoax, and that no internet businesses were making anything.  I really could have used some encouragement then, that I was on the right track. I hope you can at least have a little more confidence knowing that if a high school drop out can make it this far on nothing but sheer determination to not have to be at work at 5:45am, you CAN be successful with a little effort, some professional direction from people like Corey, and maybe a little encouragement from some unknown guy like me.. (and it doesn't hurt to have a job that requires you to get up at 4:30 in the morning to go get shot at either!)

Feel free to ask questions here or through email.. I don't post much, but I lurk a LOT. : )

Best of luck to everybody!

Glen Pipkins

To learn more about Glen's company, AllWebCo, click here to visit their web site.    (This link will open a second browser window, so you can look around all you like without getting lost; just close the window when you're ready to come back here.)  We host several domains with AllWebCo, so I speak with some authority when I say the deal they offer is second to none, and the SUPPORT is incredible.  Tell them FIB sent you for $10 off your set-up fee.  But first....